artificial baits advice

Discussion of Sea fishing bait, Mackerel, Ragworm, Squid, Hermit Crab, Lugworm bait.
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dabhand
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artificial baits advice

Post by dabhand » Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:48 pm

was thinking of buying some gulp artificial bait, ie: peeler, prawn, sandeel etc.
i was gonna get some so if i ever got the urge for a spur of the moment trip out and couldnt get any fresh bait i could use that.
problem is i have never tried it before so dont know if it actually works. i have been told it is a really good substitute for real bait as it has a 400x more scent. is this true and does it really work. i dont wanna waste cash if it doesnt
any advice would be really appreciated



royboy
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Post by royboy » Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:15 pm

this is only my thoughts but these baits used in a boat round wrecks are ok but fishing of a beach i dont like them and ive bought them all and put them in the bin i never caught a fish with them but some one might have caught fish with it

Ilurvmatthayes
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Post by Ilurvmatthayes » Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:35 pm

Not heard any good reports of the Gulp stuff from the shore. If it's bait for spur of the moment fishing you'd be better off using Black lug, squid or cuttle, mackerel/blueys or sandeel from your freezer.

dabhand
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Post by dabhand » Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:58 pm

thanks for the replies guys.
maybe i better not waste money on it then!
i think i will go for getting some frozen blacks for the freezer instead then.
trouble is, local to me, blow lug and rag fishes better for the flounder and schoolies.

eccles
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Post by eccles » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:23 am

Basically it's a bit of a con trick. There will be a fair few members of this forum who have tried this kind of stuff in the past including me but it does not work and some guys may turn up and agree with me in the near future. I have been regularly fishing the south coast for over 12 years and never heard of anyone catching anything with artificial baits except of course the well known lures which are designed to flutter/swim as they move through the water.

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Post by Sandfly » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:13 am

I think perhaps a lot of the reason that artificial baits don't have a good reputation is that we as anglers seldom give them much of a chance.

I often use a silver 'plastic' lugworm on one hook of a two-hook rig when fishing from the beach. I reason that the scent from the real bait on one hook helps attract the fish and the prescence of an artificial bait ensures that I'm not fishing completely bare hooks as can happen in badly crab-infested areas. A second benefit is that I save on natural bait so I can fish for longer with less. These plastic worms do have a waggly tail, but I'm fishing them on a static rig, so the only movement is that imparted by the tide.

They work too. I have taken some of my biggest Whiting on them this season. In fact the fish have ignored the natural bait and taken the artificial one on many occasions.

It's no good trying an artificial baits for one or two casts, getting nothing and giving up. They need trying for long periods of time in various weather and tidal conditions. I will continue to use mine as I'm convinced it's worthwhile.

I haven't tried the exact artificial bait mentioned. My plastic worms don't have any scent at all but they still catch fish.

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Post by Boxerman » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:36 am

I'd be interested in any info about these artificial baits too. When we go on holiday in the camper, I can't always get hold of fresh bait and there's no way I'm going to put any bait in the van's fridge. We all know that it doesn't take long for natural baits to start stinking the place out, and the only solution at the moment is salted black lug.

I think Sandfly makes a very good point about people trying stuff once, not being successful and then dismissing it as useless, most of us are rather conservative (I don't mean politically) and are not always that willing to give something new a fair chance.

I've been out many times in ideal conditions with good bait and blanked, if I'd fished the same conditions with artificial bait and had the same results, would it be the bait at fault?

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Post by Sandfly » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:09 pm

I hope this isn't going too far off-topic, but I sometimes wonder about the real value of bait scent trails. Think about a couple of small blow-lug on the small hooks of a flatfish rig. Then consider how much scent (juice) they actually contain. It will be a few millilitres at best. If one then takes into account the volume of water they're laying in and the action of tide and currents, I would think that the scent would be so dissipated by the time it was more than a metre or so away from the hook that it would be nigh on impossible for any fish, other than one that happened to be in the immediate vicinity, to detect it.

I know someone is likely to quote the apparently remarkable blood detection capabilities of sharks, for example, but fish don't rely solely on scent. They also feed by sight and touch, as well as detecting electrical impulses through the lateral line. Two small blow-lug don't give off much electrical energy. Nor do they have huge amounts of scent. That really leaves sight and touch. Perhaps this then would suggest why fish will take a plastic worm bait that has no attractants other than it's visual and/or tactile attributes.

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Post by Ilurvmatthayes » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:22 pm

Sandfly wrote:I hope this isn't going too far off-topic, but I sometimes wonder about the real value of bait scent trails. Think about a couple of small blow-lug on the small hooks of a flatfish rig. Then consider how much scent (juice) they actually contain. It will be a few millilitres at best. If one then takes into account the volume of water they're laying in and the action of tide and currents, I would think that the scent would be so dissipated by the time it was more than a metre or so away from the hook that it would be nigh on impossible for any fish, other than one that happened to be in the immediate vicinity, to detect it.

I know someone is likely to quote the apparently remarkable blood detection capabilities of sharks, for example, but fish don't rely solely on scent. They also feed by sight and touch, as well as detecting electrical impulses through the lateral line. Two small blow-lug don't give off much electrical energy. Nor do they have huge amounts of scent. That really leaves sight and touch. Perhaps this then would suggest why fish will take a plastic worm bait that has no attractants other than it's visual and/or tactile attributes.
Your post last year when you caught 24 whiting and a dab all on lug tipped squid possibly answers your wonderings about the value of scent from bait.

The other theoretical point about scent (especially with small baits) is to build it up - so if you can cast in the same spot every cast you will build up a scent trail- and theoretically improve catch rate.

Separately, last winter a friend outfished everyone else on the beach catching loads of dabs using the stinkiest smelliest most rancid black lug i've ever had the misfortune to come across so for me scent does work.

dabhand
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Post by dabhand » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:54 pm

thanks for the comments guys. some interesting arguements made about scent trails.
personally i think the fresher the worm or fish bait the better, especially in estuarine waters where the water is particularly coloured. i know fish do use sight to an extent especially in clear water but with murky water scent has to play a big part. in the mouth of the thames and medway where i fish a lot as its on my doorstep, i find nothing beats fresh blow lug or fresh king rag for the schoolies and flounder.
i did like sandflys way of using a live lug on the bottem with an artificial lug on the top hook. i might try that tomorrow when i fish either grain or allhallows. it would be interesting to see if it does actually work in our murky estuary. nothing ventured, nothing gained as they say.
will post a report tomorrow

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Post by rabbi2 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:12 pm

Just a quick note I have fished from the boat using very smelly lugworm and it has out fish all those using fresh, so scent does play a big part.

If I were to use artificial bait then I wouild certainly soak it in a bait extract so as to increase my chances.
Cheers
keith :D :D

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