PLEASE READ: Article 47 - your fishing is under threat

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FUBAR
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PLEASE READ: Article 47 - your fishing is under threat

Post by FUBAR »




andiroo
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Post by andiroo »

Just sent

come on guys lets show them anglers arent pushovers!!!

Andi

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AH
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Post by AH »

It's easy to legislate but impossible to enforce, thats what Eurocrats don't realise. I can see fishing balaclava's making a come back together with extended cosh's for show, beach riots, breakwater blockades, burnt out cars and all that stuff. As if enforcers will go looking in dark desolated places looking to spoil the solitude of an angler, and if they do then they deserve a good kicking. They would have to turn up in full riot gear with plenty of back-up every time, just in case it kicked off. You'll have hardcore football hooligans taking up fishing for the agro without the threat of CCTV. I am not anti-establishment but sometimes i wonder if the establishment are anti-public. If they can tax it, then it will probably happen.

FUBAR
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Post by FUBAR »

THing is AH you are wrong.

As with any law you don't have to enforce in all places at all times. They just need to be in the right place at the right time.
Take my local beach - Eastney. In two months time when the Plaice season kicks off there will be upwards of 150 anglers fishing here every Saturday and Sunday. And it is dead easy. Shut both ends of the road. Send a team of enforcement officers in from each end and two in the middle. What do you do? Take the rap or do a runner and leave your gear? They will have the press along as well for a great story - 150 anglers nicked and fined for no licence.

Winter time do the same at Dungeness. It has been packed every day for weeks due to the cod being in. Easy target. And when we all start fishing the remote marks to try to evade them they'll get us there too.

Result is it will kill recreational sea angling in this country unless we make a stand and protest against it NOW, before it becomes law.

Sorry for the rant but this "it is unenforceable" bollocks is just that - bollocks X(

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Post by AH »

Fubar - I take it enforcement officers would be the Police or is it likely to be a traffic warden doing a bit of over time. The point that your missing is that the majority in this case is a big majority and in the case of your beach with 150 heads then I take it that they would need a lot of enforcement officers to tackle them especially if they all packed up the same time. By the time they checked one anglers records the rest would be burning off. If you invade the human rights of the majority then expect a backlash. With respect you are doing the right thing in writing polite letters, but you have to spell out the potential for public unrest in order to get these fools to listen. The persons you are writing to are in a position of power because they are arse licking yes men who deliver not write the message.

GaryBadd

Post by GaryBadd »

this debate could go on forever and im my opinion if and when the government bring in some kind law or licence for sea anglers i will still be going fishing without a licence unless the income is used for something i agree with like keeping fishing vessel from inshore water , i dont even eat fish so why should i pay for my bait then parking and then a licence when im going to put all fish back anyway :-/ and to be fair to most anglers its not ever day when you catch 20 bass all over 10lb , it aint us thats killing the fish stocks but the british goverment allowing the french , spainish , and so on taking the fish then selling them back to us .

tightlines
Gary the licence dodger :>

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Post by sam28 »

Hi lads, just sent a long email to my local MEP conveying my anger and have signed the petition as well.

mudlark

Post by mudlark »

Before the bombs start landing I'll just point out that I signed the petition ....... not because I particularly dissagree with a lot of the proposals, but because I just know that the Govt and Brussells will make a complete arse of things as they usually do and the whole thing will have no benefit whatsoever to anybody, especially the fish.

I do have to say though that all the winging and moaning about this has really made me a bit embarassed to call myself an angler at times lately.

Firstly bag limits - nobody likes a freshly caught fillet more than me .... but I'm angler, not a fishmonger and quite frankly I think its double standards if RSAs want commercial fisherman to stop catching or be limited to what they catch, when they are not prepared to make sacrifices themselves ..... same tune I've heard for 30 years plus .... "we must conserve the fish stocks .... so long as it doesn't effect me and I can take what I like"! we should be leading by example.

Actaully, for most shore anglers, if they introduced a six fish limit for Cod and Bass (and there are no firm proposals for what a bag limit would be) you wouldn't notice the bloody difference .... when was the last time you caught six keeper Bass or Cod in a session off the shore?

Logging your catch a problem is it? How many of you keep a catch record already ..... probably 70 or 80% of anglers I reckon, I've yet to meet a serious angler who didn't keep some kind of log or diary of his/her catches. No hardship there then is there?

I must admit that Fubar's comment about the "loss of the right to roam" bit did worry me a bit though, cos I thought I'd missed something when I read that flipping great load of boring proposal documents, so much so, that I read em again .... but no, couldn't find it - what loss of the right to roam are we talking about?

The honest truth is that the proposal, as it stands at the moment with regards to the recreational sea fishery is actually only...... wait for it ....... 4 sentences! Given the uproar and the scaremongering you'd think the proposal contained 40 pages on the RSAs. Sure enough, I think Charter skippers will soon have a bit more paperwork to do but an awful lot has been read into this proposal which quite frankly isn't actaully there.

I'd be the first to agree that we shouldn't let our gaurd down, and that we should give europe our four-penneth but I do wonder quite why we are getting in such a panick over 4 sentences which actually, when you take what they say at face value (I'm an optimist, I can't help it) say very little that should worry any shore angler.

Maybe, however, I've missed something - so Fubar, as you seem to have taken the lead on this one (and I'm asking seriously here - maybe you've found something I haven't) could you point me to the relevant bits of this proposal.

Which bit says RSAs will have to pay for a licence?

Which bit says that, if bag limits are imposed, we will have to pack up and go home and are not allowed to carry on fishing?

Which bit says that catch and release will be banned? I'm sure the match boys will be interested in that one.

And in what way will RSAs lose the right to roam?

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Post by FUBAR »

You will find the answer to all your questions here:

http://www.ssacn.org/wp-content/pdf/SSA ... e%2047.pdf

A lot of things come down to interpretation and the law of unintended consequences. For example regulations banning discards could very likely make catch and release from the shore illegal. Maybe not the intention, but once the law is in place who can say it won't be interpreted in this way? The British government especially (both Labour and Tory) have a history of taking EU regulations and implementing them in the strictest possible sense. So I wouldn't put it past them to do the same in this instance and that will see the banning of catch and release.

As for your comments about sea anglers affecting fish stocks - have you read the other thread on here about fish dumping? It is estimated (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthn ... uotas.html) that over ONE MILLION TONNES of perfectly good saleable fish are dumped dead back in the sea by commercial fishing boats every year. I challenge anybody to look at the figures and then say that the amount of fish caught by sea anglers amounts to more than a drop in the ocean when it comes to fish stocks.

The arguments about the Licence are covered in the first link. And as for logging your catch, you are right to say most of us do this already but there is a world of difference between keeping your own notes and having to register every fish you catch with the government every time you go fishing.

This is a bad proposal and will make a bad law. Will it be unenforceable? A great deal of it probably will be, but as I asaid above it won't stop them trying and the consequences for our fishing could well be devastating.

rca

post

Post by rca »

hi guys
like the other petition we had going i dont feel we did enough to pass the word around maybe we need to start pushing this on all the other fishing forums in the uk to get them on board


Ron

rca

action required

Post by rca »

hi guys
these are now the two links you require.

1. to sign the petition use this link.

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/rsa-eu-proposal/


2. to write to your MEP use this link.

http://www.writetothem.com/

rca

MEP mail

Post by rca »

hi guys
this is the letter i have sent useing the links to MEPS it may give you an idea of what to write.


Dear Your MEP
Could you please take a look at the undermentioned article and support Struan Stephenson - Scottish MEP has spoken out against the proposals

i am opposed to article 47 of the EU common fisheries policy control regulations which links recreational fisheries to commercial catches.

Thank you for taking time to read this mail

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Post by Realytangled »


mudlark

Post by mudlark »

FUBAR wrote:You will find the answer to all your questions here:

http://www.ssacn.org/wp-content/pdf/SSA ... e%2047.pdf

A lot of things come down to interpretation and the law of unintended consequences. For example regulations banning discards could very likely make catch and release from the shore illegal. Maybe not the intention, but once the law is in place who can say it won't be interpreted in this way? The British government especially (both Labour and Tory) have a history of taking EU regulations and implementing them in the strictest possible sense. So I wouldn't put it past them to do the same in this instance and that will see the banning of catch and release.

As for your comments about sea anglers affecting fish stocks - have you read the other thread on here about fish dumping? It is estimated (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthn ... uotas.html) that over ONE MILLION TONNES of perfectly good saleable fish are dumped dead back in the sea by commercial fishing boats every year. I challenge anybody to look at the figures and then say that the amount of fish caught by sea anglers amounts to more than a drop in the ocean when it comes to fish stocks.

The arguments about the Licence are covered in the first link. And as for logging your catch, you are right to say most of us do this already but there is a world of difference between keeping your own notes and having to register every fish you catch with the government every time you go fishing.

This is a bad proposal and will make a bad law. Will it be unenforceable? A great deal of it probably will be, but as I asaid above it won't stop them trying and the consequences for our fishing could well be devastating.
Firstly, not at any point does any of the proposal documents mention a fishing licence in the sense you are talking about ..... every single mention of a licence relates to "licenced fishing vessels - you can check that with a simple search on any of the released documents - I can't see how anybody can interpret that as licensing every angler.

As for discarding dead fish its something the current (crap) fishery laws have brought about and something no commercial fisherman wants to do but is forced to do because of the circumstances of the current system. Actually, if you read the documents properly you will see that one of the aims of the new proposals is to take steps to reduce discards and monitor the commercial fleet more closely ...... its not perfect, but some of the proposals are a step in the right direction - the trouble is that those that are whipping up all this unrest are so busy saying "no" to one small part of the proposal that they have turned the whole thing into a negative and made everyone blind to the bits that are positive.

Your comment about catch and release is a dead giveaway .... its pure supposition, as is the comment about losing the right to roam ...... its all just scaremongering and rumour.

It says nowhere that anglers will have to register every fish they catch with the government - and actually that would be a beaurocratic impossibility ...... does anybody have any comprehension of how many people it would take to administer such a scheme? What the proposal says is that government will have to register a quantity of the catch relating to RSAs (which will most likely be estimated as the commercial share is) so it can be included in with the quota system.

Are people stupid with this one? What that means is that what we catch will be included in the quota ..... ie we will be taking a share of the commercial quota away from the commercial fleet ...... has the penny dropped yet, the commercials will get to catch less fish because they will have to relinquish a share to RSAs!!!!! From my way of thinking thats a good thing.

I'm sorry but quoting links to me is not actually answering the question is it?.... its actually convincing me that you can't answer .... because most of the stuff that is being banded about currently is just in certain peoples vivid imagination.

On a final point .... its not a bad law simply because its not law yet ... but it will be a bad law because everybody seems to be getting transfixed on some imagined negatives that don't exist yet and completely overlooking anything it contains that might be of benefit and attempting to build and improve on the positives.

At some point in time we are going to have to accept that if we want to conserve the fish stocks and have a few fish left for our grandchilden to catch we will have to surrender some rights and make some sacrifices - who the hell are we to complain at commercial fisherman when we are not prepared to give up anything ourselves. I fail to see how any of what this proposal currently contains could "devestate our fishing" ..... more control and scrutiny of the commercial fleet, less fish for the commercials as we will now take a share of the quota and no illegal selling of fish by RSAs ..... these are all firm and detailed proposals contained in the documents (not someones imagination) ...... how is that bad for the conservation of our fish stocks??????

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