trawlers

Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 6:49 pm

Message
shorty
Regular

Joined: Nov 30, 2007
Posts: 274
Location: swansea
Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: TRAWLERS

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was in mumbles on saturday and heard that the trawler boats are looking at sites like this one to find out where the fish are being caught and then "sweeping" the area, we all want to see what is being caught and to have friendly banter, but one day the seas will be empty and then everyone suffers, so if you see trawlers in your area post their name here and shame them, its our sport/hobby so lets protect it as best we can

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sheep
Occasional

Joined: Apr 12, 2008
Posts: 57

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject:

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DAMN STARIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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weightloser
Member

Joined: Apr 13, 2008
Posts: 20

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject:

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I don't think 'shame' features in their vocabulary!

Anyone know the legal side of things regarding inshore fishing? Aren't there exclusion limits or such like? Is there a telephone number to ring if we suspect illegal activity?

Logically...if we're catching little'uns from the beach, and the trawlers are coming in waist-deep to net then it seems a fair assumption that they're netting the same undersize fish that we are inadvertently catching from the shore?

I would suspect that there are significant legal implications on fishing where the fishing stock is known (or can be reasonably assumed) to be immature based on local knowledge, anecdotal and backed by factual evidence that these areas are in no way suitable for commercial fishing of any type or form.
If they are fishing in areas where the transient population of fish is known to be for the majority of cases to be predominantly below catch-limit then this could be reasonably interpreted as deliberately targeting undersized stocks.

As the old maxim goes, “All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing” ....this may sound a little OTT but it'll be too late when the seas have been raped beyond recovery. When this cash-crop dries up, most of these 'buzzards' (as in scavengers..honestly!) will sell their boats and start selling duff auction-turnaround cars on local byways!

We (sea anglers collectively) REALLY need to start making some NOISE!!! Get clued up on what the NFSA and DEFRA, etc., are up to and 'stand together!' (no frog jokes please) We have to 'push & shove' the restrictions on inshore fishing issues to the front of the agenda! Isn't fishing the biggest participatory sport in the UK..well surely to god there's enough of us then!!

You've all got online access...so lets all get researching and lets make a bloody nuisance of ourselves! We SHALL be heard!!!!

SERIOUSLY!!!

marco

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shannock
Advanced User

Joined: Apr 07, 2008
Posts: 563
Location: sunny sheringham north norfolk
Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject:

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we need evidence of these boats rapeing our beaches
the fisheries protection vessels cant be everywhere , they need our help we have mobile phones to take pictures and video and take our cameras with us when we go fishing ,so lets get the proof

DEFRA and the fisheries protection agencys are in the yellow pages ,you may think what will i be able to do , but if we all did then we can protect this safe and harmless hobby not only for ourselves but for our children and theirs to

i have missed the last 25yrs due to being to lazy (shall i go sea fishing nah cant be bothered ) what a prat i want to make up for that and be able to go for years to come

anyway good luck to everyone going fishing tomorrow put a bend in those rods

cheers steve

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weightloser
Member

Joined: Apr 13, 2008
Posts: 20

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 1:16 am Post subject:

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I seriously believe the way we need to approach this is through the bureaucratic system (gah!)

Unless anyone has got telescopic zoom and night-vision it will be impossible to identify the 'buzzards' boats, and due to insufficient resource coverage from the fisheries only a tiny proportion are ever likely to be apprehended 'in situ' and I should imagine that whilst not the most intellectual of people they will inherently have a 'low level cunning' that has drawn them to making a fast buck at a low risk of being 'caught in the act'.

I think it would be difficult to deal with the situation at this level as (if a fisheries boat does materialise) there will always be the defense that they 'strayed off course' and insufficient evidence as they will dispose of undersize anything when a boat approaches (stick a breezeblock in the undersize haul-net and drop it off the side...to recover later). Or, lets put it this way, if I was doing it make damned sure I had a contingency plan!

The only way to do this is to push for the 'golden mile' exclusion on inshore netting where they cannot claim that they were 'accidentally' setting nets just 30m off the beach! That way, any such boat within sight of the shore would possibly be of dubious activity!

As I've said earlier in this thread, surely to god there are enough of us, and amongst our number there must be 'professional' people who participate in angling as a recreational activity..somehow I can't imagine a solicitor/doctor/etc going out for a spot of gill-netting as a way to relax!

We need to get fully clued-up and utilize the resources that are dormant within the network..not just Wales..the whole UK forum!

If you're passionate about fishing..then LET'S DO IT!!!

I'm not a noise-maker by nature but after seeing netting on Cefn Sidan in thigh-deep water..tis bout time we put our case forward, harnessing such parties with similar concern (professionals, greens, environmentalists, sheer numbers, etc) about the rape of our shoreline in the name of 'a quick buck'!

I appeal to you all to get behind what you believe in!!

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weightloser
Member

Joined: Apr 13, 2008
Posts: 20

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 11:44 am Post subject:

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for starters....

South Wales Sea Fisheries Committee Tel: 01792 654466

http://www.swsfc.org.uk/

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shannock
Advanced User

Joined: Apr 07, 2008
Posts: 563
Location: sunny sheringham north norfolk
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject:

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DEFRA 01502 573149 lowestoft n norfolk area
0845 9335577 london
01223 462727 cambridge

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weightloser
Member

Joined: Apr 13, 2008
Posts: 20

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 7:52 pm Post subject:

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ain't had time to digest this lot YET, but may be useful to get clued up on the terminology......

http://www.defra.gov.uk/fish/about/index.htm

notice there's lots of people looking at the thread..bit of luck a few will be prepared to do something

have just banged off an email to SWSFC to get clarification on a few points...as Rich Hall (US comic) says.."When you Brits get REALLY angry..you write a letter!"

and yes..as a newcomer to the forum I have got a cheek! hehe!

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leggyman
Regular

Joined: Apr 30, 2008
Posts: 138
Location: Brighton Marina
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:06 pm Post subject:

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There's a petition thats been posted on this site and others for the creation of a "Golden mile" where ALL commercial fishing would be banned within one mile of the coast. I have lost where it is on the site though so perhaps one of the moderators could find it and make it a sticky since I seem to remember it has a few months to go before its submitted. I think every member should at least think about signing it and hopefully get their mates signing as well.

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weightloser
Member

Joined: Apr 13, 2008
Posts: 20

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject:

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cheers leggyman, will have a look for 'golden mile' thread..and hopefully it'll get 'stickied'.....hey BBM if ur out there...

just found this too..don't want to appear alarmist but it makes grim reading...

"UK BASS STOCKS COLLAPSING"

http://www.sacn.org.uk/Conservation-and-Political-News/Bass_Collapsing.html

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shannock
Advanced User

Joined: Apr 07, 2008
Posts: 563
Location: sunny sheringham north norfolk
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject:

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its on the home page now

cheers steve

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steveseagull
Occasional

Joined: Feb 24, 2008
Posts: 97
Location: shoreham-by-sea
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:41 pm Post subject:

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I saw this the other day but couldnt, with my non existent computer skills manage to cut and paste it. sorry. It reads grimly, especially if commercial fishermen are complaining. It is abit rich though; how many posts have there been on this site about 300kilo plus catches of bass in a session by rod and line? i rest my case. (although it was a different Bar i was invited to)

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leggyman
Regular

Joined: Apr 30, 2008
Posts: 138
Location: Brighton Marina
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:57 pm Post subject:

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Just to add a slightly happier note to the Bass doom and gloom, I am happy to say I saw the largest shoal of small bass ( all about 0.5lb) I have ever seen in my life the other day probably numbering 5,000 fish!! Lets hope something positive happens before they reach takeable size since I have been noticing a distinct decline in the numbers of sizeable Bass I catch in the past couple of years

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shorty
Regular

Joined: Nov 30, 2007
Posts: 274
Location: swansea
Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 12:09 am Post subject:

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could one of the VERY NICE and FAB moderaters PLEASE make this a sticky as i would like to keep this debate going and maybe we the anglers (and danglers) can and will make a differance to the "sport" /"hobby" we all enjoy ,i have been amazed by the responce to this subject ,please find the petition for the one mile ban and sign it i have .
tight lines to you all
and catch and release is fishing for tomorrow

Guest

noticeable lack of interest now the fishees are starting to show..are we gonna repeat this exercise again next year i wonder? worried

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:24 pm

This is the point that I have made in many of my posts. The fact that when asked to do something, the subject is droped like a hot potatoe.

We deserve what we get with the apathy shown by most members.

The moans and groans will continue next year but Ill have very little sympathy. GOD helps those who help themselves.

A VERY SAD RABBI crying

Guest

Fair enough what you saying i know its wrong but im gill netter Fisherman on Swansea Beach when im out there Oct to March they are in so far trwlin the beach when they got be 150m out at sea

Guest

I do use a fishing Rod April to Sep

Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:06 am

This apparently has happend recently off Pendine, after an angling club posted pics of their catch quite innocently on this and other forums....

a week later, two trawlers were seen fishing quite legally in the bay, typical trawler damage washed up on the beach.....

For the benefit of all trawler skippers, we know you have a business to run, but politely put...piss off somewhere else!

Regular Joined: Jul 26, 2009 Posts: 343 Location: Surrey

I've voiced my suspicions over this here before. I believe a commercial fisherman and angler on this site denied this happens, yet I imagine any information on the whereabouts of fish will not be ignored by any trawlermen. So it would make sense to me for posters here to be circumspect about exact locations where commercials can legally fish, reserving these details for those they trust via pms.

Until commercial fishing is restricted to sustainable levels (which I do not see happening in the immediate future) I think it wise to give as little away as possible.

Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:33 am

well, without being rude to anyone, i may say what ive caught, but usually the precise location is a guarded secret...

Common Fisheries policy is a pile of common rubbish, and we will always be effected by it.

The best way to ensure we might have fish to catch in the future is education, and enforcing size limits and areas defined as nursery areas better.

To give an example, a Bass wont be sexually mature until it reaches 42 cm long. The minimum size from DEFRA is 36cm, although many angling clubs acknowledge a bigger size. I personally wont take a fish unless its 42cm long, and no more than 2 in any one day. The majority of fish over 6lb are female, and the need to put big bass back is essential. I return fish now over 6LB in weight, i may keep the odd 4lber for the table.

I believe we should have a policy where we have catch limits for all species, similar to Austrailia, and well enforced. That may mean a Sea Angling Licence, something we all dont realy want, but id also like to catch fish in the future....

tricky isnt it!

Joined: Oct 30, 2010 Posts: 3

I've read all through this post and what is very apparent is a lack of actual knowledge as to who does what, where and by whom in the role of fisheries protection services in Wales.
From Nth Wales all the way down to the Severn, there are as many of you know, Bass Nursery Sites and as most are located in River estuaries, the responsibility of enforcing the Nursery Site regulations are in fact given to Environment Agency Wales as the enforcing body acting as the Agent on behalf of Defra.
The Areas covered by EAW are those areas of rivers upstream of the delineated boundaries defined as for the Local sea fishery committees being SWSFC and the NW & NW SFC.
for example on the Dee it is Point of Air Light house in Flintshire to Red Rocks Point at West Kirby on the Wirral so any bass fishery offences fall within the jusisdiction of EA Wales for enforcment and prosecutions if any such matters are detected upstream of that imaginary line.

Those areas of responsibility can be identified quite easily by looking at the websites of all three Bodies and their fishery byelaws in which geographical responsibilities are clearly defined.

http://www.nwnwsfc.org/page/home.htm refer to " Limits of District"
likewise for South Wales refer to
http://www.swsfc.org.uk/byelaws.htm

for example. the setting of gill nets in the Severn is banned upstream of the points herein described by EA Wales ...........

Byelaw 10 – Sea fishing in River Severn
The placing and use of fixed engines for taking sea fish is prohibited in all parts of the River Severn and its tributaries in England inland of a line, as referred to in the description of the South Wales Sea Fisheries Committee district, drawn across the River Severn, from a point of the eastern side of the mouth of the Rhymney River in the county of Cardiff (ST229774) true north of the lighthouse on Flatholm (ST 222646), thence to the said lighthouse, and thence true east to the coast of the Unitary Authority of North Somerset (ST331646).

as per
http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/static/documents/Research/Sea_Fisheries_Byelaws.pdf

Law as in regard to the three bodies in Wales and their responibilites :

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegType=All+Legislation&title=Wales+Act&searchDay=20&searchMonth=3&searchYear=2010&searchEnacted=0&extentMatchOnly=0&confersPower=0&blanketAmendment=0&sortAlpha=0&PageNumber=1&NavFrom=0&parentActiveTextDocId=3675514&ActiveTextDocId=3675568&filesize=10168

http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/fisheries/documents/fisheries/sfc-role.pdf

Information is also of very clearly defined on roles and responsibilites as documented at http://www.wwf.org.uk/filelibrary/pdf/ma_seafshrs_wa.pdf

anglers must also read the much referred to " Nautilus Report ", which although was published In Aug 2000, much of its contents still apply to this day and having contributed to its data at the time, I feel strongly that anglers still have a very strong role and a much needed ability to influence change if only they would get off their backsides are take action politically so view and be shocked....
http://www.nautilus-consultants.co.uk/pdfs/wales.pdf

Vital reading for an understanding of the fishery enforcment stance in wales is : http://ukbass.com/2005/05/nw-nwwsfc-angling-meeting_12.html

Further, it is worth reading the Governments last statement of management of Bass Fisheries and its content.
http://www.parliament.uk/briefingpapers/commons/lib/research/briefings/snsc-00745.pdf

This document gives a insight of MP's and ministers opinions on the subject which obviously needs to be reviewed by anglers who can lobby for further intervention.

Sea Anglers would also find that there is in fact an angling campaign to protect all fisheries in Wales and joining it will bring a much stronger voice to the political process of giving anglers a greater say in coastal fisheries management than at present.
The Website I'd invite all to read and to join forces with in this regard is :

http://www.cpwf.co.uk/campaign/

So if anglers see nets in use illegally in an area upstream of the Sea Fishery Committee, then a call MUST be made IMMEDIATELY at the time to 0800 807060 (put this number in your Mobile for future use ) and tell them everything you have seen....remember though to ask for ther incident number and demand that you are given feedback from the investigating officer after the event.
Failure by the EA to do this is a matter contrary to the EA's Customer Charter
This fact applies to the reporting of any fishery offence and anglers should raise such failures with both their respective MP and Assembly Member for them to investigate any such failures and breaches.
Such complaints can also be made for failures by the sea fishery Inspectorate bodies whom I might add have such a dismal record for the prosecution of Fishery offences.
Remember that throughout all of Wales, you pay these officers to carry out their duties by means of a levied precept through your local Unitary authority ( Check the small print on your rate demand) and as such, anglers can raise issues with any local county Councillor who sits on the respective body..... such is your ability to influence matters if only this ability was widely used and don't forget, as anglers we should demand Value for money! or consign the Body to what is described as the "Bonfire of the Quango's"

What is most apparent is the poor rate of prosecutions by the four enforcement agencies involved in Wales in dealing with sea fishery offenders and I'm quite certain that any questions asked of such performance measures using the Freedom of Information Act to gain accurate and compelled replies will be met with disdain by those that are required to make such responses.
it is worthy to note that any such questions should be copied in to your MP for his overview and ability to compel answers where appropriate.

Leon Roskilly was helped to put together a document which I highly recommend as vital reading by all, and in it you will find contact numbers and some extremely sound advice. not to be ignored at any time...

please refer to http://www.thenationalmulletclub.org/netting.htm

So having said all of this...and nobody falls asleep reading it all, maybe I should apologize for the hyperlink overload, but it is the only way to present information that otherwise would take months to define any other way therefore you can read at leasure what is in my view vital reading which will enable and empower anglers to take matters further to protect our sporting heritage for the nenefit of granchildrem and others to come.

best regards and tight lines

Orme Rambler