Legal Right to dig bait ?

Member Joined: Nov 19, 2007 Posts: 21 Location: GRIMSBY

It appears to me we have a legal right to dig bait so long as it's not to re-sell.
On page 198 of Alan Yates excellent book, GUIDE TO MODERN SEA ANGLING, (shore edition) ; "The right of the common man to fish from the sea-shore is written into the Magna Carta..." He goes on to say; "local councils cannot take away your right to fish. Bait digging, being a part of fishing, is also protected by the law to some extent, although only in terms of personal bait digging..."
Does this mean we can ignore the "NO BAIT DIGGING" signs that seem to be popping up all over the place and the job'sworths officer in his bright yellow beach safety landrover who insists you stop digging and leave ?

To be fair, the local officer that chucked my mate off the beach was very polite.

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:11 pm

Doesn't matter how friggin' polite he was. The key issue is whether he had the law with him or not.

Let's hear from Alan Yates - he makes enough dough in the magazines, let him give us his unpaid view!

Guest

If a local Authority introduces a bye law that prevents certain activities such as bait digging- as was the case at Southend- and you dont like it- its up to you to challenge that bye law via judicial review or by defending yourself against prosecution - I did quote legal advice which I personally went out of my way to get from a senior Local Authority solicitor last year in response to a similar post but was told to mind my own business despite the question being asked on this forum so you pays your money and takes your chances.

Member Joined: Nov 19, 2007 Posts: 21 Location: GRIMSBY

If it is enshrined in the Magna Carta, where's the argument ?? I think this is something the Federation should look at surely ?

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:28 am

CJS wrote:

If it is enshrined in the Magna Carta, where's the argument ??

There seem to be a lot of misunderstandings about Magna Carta - it was mainly about what the barons no longer had to do for the King and not much to do with ordinary people. I found a good translation at http://www.bl.uk/treasures/magnacarta/translation.html
There's not much mention of fishing - except for the "removal of fish weirs on the Thames"!

Basically, it confirmed my understanding that as far as ordinary people are concerned Magna Carta says that an Englishman is free to do anything he isn't forbidden by law from doing - and I think we all knew that anyway!

I may have missed something so have a look - remember that it is the paragraphs marked "+" that are still in force.

Alfie

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:24 pm

surely there should not be a law in digging bait just like there is no law saying you can't pick up driftwood from a beach, but i'm saying this as i'm lucky as i've got a big worm farm by me which i buy my bait from DRAGON BAITS in Port Talbot they deliver to if you are far away

BUT A LAW TO STOP BAIT DIGGING IS PATHETIC

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:11 am

I'll try to investigate further but I've got a feeling it will all come down to who (if anyone) owns the foreshore below the low water mark.

I fear that Mr Yates book, mentioned in the first post above may have stated one of those "truths that everyone knows" which turns out to be nothing of the sort.

I hope he's right, however, and I'll let you know if I find anything.

Alfie

Member Joined: Nov 19, 2007 Posts: 21 Location: GRIMSBY

I don't know about the area BELOW the low water mark but I would assume that like the area between high and low water it is crown land which should work out well as far as bait diging is concerned.
I would have thought the federation or someone linked to them might have commented by now ???

Member Joined: Dec 18, 2007 Posts: 53 Location: Kent

CJS wrote:

If it is enshrined in the Magna Carta, where's the argument ?? I think this is something the Federation should look at surely ?

Magna Carta is frequently misquoted. Nothing at all to do with modern laws/bylaws/regulations etc.

Guest

fishyone wrote:

CJS wrote:

If it is enshrined in the Magna Carta, where's the argument ?? I think this is something the Federation should look at surely ?

Magna Carta is frequently misquoted. Nothing at all to do with modern laws/bylaws/regulations etc.

UNDERLINED AND IN BOLD

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:26 pm

A bit hard to follow but throwing a bit of light on some of our misconceptions is the article by a QC from this newsletter of a Barristers Chambers in London -

http://www.selbornechambers.co.uk/documents/Newsletter9_Nov2006.pdf (you will need Adobe Acrobat Reader to open it)

It would seem that if we are carrying fishing tackle on a beach we have slightly more rights than those who aren't and it may be that Alan Yates was right, even if he quoted the wrong authority.

We might, however, have to suffer wet feet if there is a spring tide and the land above the mean high water mark is in private ownership!

Alfie

Guest

I think Stuartdv has already hit the nail on the head when saying local bylaws apply. It will take a brave man to take on a bylaw and plenty of dosh to fight it in the courts.
Most bylaws regarding fishing and bait digging are put in place for health and safety reasons, I.E if a beach is used frequently by the gen public the council could argue that a lead weight wizzing around at speeds of 100 mph in a crowded place can be seen as a hazzard, same also with bait digging, if it is deemed to be a hazzard to the gen public then on health and safety grounds it can be banned, digging holes in the seabed can become a hazzard as the ground becomes soft creating a sort of quicksand. This is why I believe Southend council restricted bait digging to a 1/4 mile of the coast. No court in the land would argue with H&S issues, magna carta or not..

Guest

The point is though, if a Council (Southend is definitely one I know of) introduces a bye-law which imposes a £50 fine for digging bait without permission in the form of a license the only sure way of challenging the byelaw conclusively or proving the Council was acting ultra vires would be to follow through with legal action either by judicially reviewing the Council or defending yourself in Court if you refused to pay the fine imposed by the Council.

Both options are potentially costly and risky- in the case of the original post the chap was asked by an official to stop but there's at least one member of this site who has been stung with a £50 fine for digging at Southend.

Guest

You got there before me Soleman- LOL

Guest

This is true and I suppose asking for a lisence could be argued except I would guess they would use the H&S card stipulating those issued with a lisence have been vetted in someway in digging in a safe manner?

I personally wouldn't fight it and pay the fine, it would work out cheaper in the long run, the chap kicked off the beach I reckon was treated lightly and could well have faced a fine if it was some jobs worth barking the orders.
I'm not sure Yatesy has all the facts and most of what he says in his book about the magna carta are years of hearsay and not backed up by real facts and upto date laws. Out of interest when was this book published?

I keep an open mind!! big grin