tippets/leaders

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:56 pm

ive been using a sub surface tippet for all my fly fishing.after today seeing so many fish jumping on the surface but not taking the flies on offer,i am wondering if i should use differant types ,ie sinking ,floating etc .what do you guys think cheers mick

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:55 pm

What flies did you try Mick?

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:50 pm

hi chris,i tried clousers,epoxy minnows,small baitfish patterns even shrimpl like grubs.dont think the wind helped too much bit of a chop on the water

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:42 pm

Well Mick, i don't think the flies were the problem, but i have found that Clouser's aren't very effective when the fish are feeding right on the surface, as obviously they fish too deep, and so i prefer an unweighted fly like the Glass Minnows in this situation. I too have wondered about the best leader materials for the right situation and as far as i can see, from experience, there is no problem using flouro with unweighted flies for fishing just below the surface, but i would change to a mono for fishing Crease flies and poppers right on the surface because obviously the flouro sinks and tends to pull the fly downwards instead of allowing it to be right on the surface where it needs to be. Maybe the wind was the problem as you say, or maybe they were in fickle mood, i have encountered the same situation myself a couple of times and wondered what i was doing wrong!
Anyone else ?

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:35 pm

Nahhh just tie it on and chuck it in,Bass are too greedy to be fussy...but.
Good answer WF,i didnt even know mono/flouro floated or sunk....Doh!
I use surface poppers with a sink tip flyline,its produced so confusion for me.
Cheers
Simon

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:05 pm

Sorry to cause you some confusion simon, i aim to please! In my other life as a Carp Angler, well all rounder really, we use Flourocarbon as leaders to ensure that the end tackle lies completely flush with the bottom contours of the lake/river, because of it's sinking properties, so it remains undetectable to the fish . On the other hand, when fishing on the surface for Carp you can only use a mono as you need a floating hooklink to facilitate a swift pick up and connection with the fish whem it takes the bait.( i also use mucilin to assist the floating). Flourocarbon's sinking properties obviously would create a disadvantage in this situation. Hope this illustrate's my conclusions a bit better for you mate ! big grin

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:48 pm

Thats got it,ta.

Regular Joined: Jul 26, 2009 Posts: 343 Location: Surrey

First of all, hello to you sea flyfishers. As you may gather, I've lately joined this interesting forum. Been flyfishing for bass for about 4 years now, although not very frequently, not least because wind and tide seldom coincide as I'd like.

Anyway, on the leader matter, I wouldn't have thought the slightly denser fluorocarbon would make a lot of difference, bearing in mind the weight of a sea fly (even without added weight) is more than the leader. But if you want to fish several feet down in deep water (something I haven't done), then a sinktip or full sinker would seem a better option.

Nigel

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:37 pm

hi nigel,welcome to the forum.would that be a sink tip leader or fly line,i just want to get amongst them fish .tightlines mick

Regular Joined: Jul 26, 2009 Posts: 343 Location: Surrey

Thanks Mick
Well, I'm not the best person to ask as I don't use them, but generally sinktip fly lines are better balanced than leaders. I've used sinking leaders in freshwater and found them clumsy, but sea flyfishing is not exactly a delicate thing, so the difference may not be so great. Cheaper than buying a new fly line, so the leader might be worth a try. Or a weightier fly - a pain to cast though, literally when it hits you in the shoulder (I was a beginner then). Nigel

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:46 pm

First, welcome to the Forum Nigel hope you enjoy your time here.

I can see where your coming from Mick, all this leader and line thing can be very confusing until you suss it all out, and a lack of success or a lean spell can be really frustrating and you start to blame it on all sorts of reasons. Iv'e been there myself many times, in all sorts of different situations in all types of fishing. The one thing that i always come back to that starts me catching again is' keeping things simple.' Whenever i try to over complicate things it only serves to confuse.
My findings so far with the Swffing are this:
A floating fly line serves me for 90% of the time fishing from the shore, the only time i have thought a sink tip fly line might be a better bet is when there has been a good chop on the water and/ or, it's been very windy, by which time it's not really been that much fun fishing with a fly set up in those conditions and a spinning outfit would have served me better.( shock horror, 'Traitor' i hear you cry!) ( however i may invest in a sink tip line for next season for when these conditions arise).
What i have done though to compensate for the conditions has been to use a weighted fly, a flourocarbon tippet/leader, sink the rod tip under the water and point the rod tip directly down the line, all in order to stay in contact with the fly. An intermediate; 1.5 -2 inches per second sinking or sink tip fly line still only fishes about 3ft deep as due to the nature of stripping the line towards you, the line is always rising in the water, however because the front end of the line is sub surface it allows better contact with the fly in choppy conditions.

As regards a faster full sinking fly line or a faster sink tip; 3.0 inches plus per second, i can only see these being useful over very deep water or from a boat/ kayak, as in my experience most bass are caught in the top 3ft of the water from the shore, even over deeper water as they are 'looking up' for likely prey.

I personally don't use any other weighted leader other than 15-19lb flourocarbon tippet/leader from fly line to fly, nice and simple and until i find a reason to alter this i won't be, If i want to fish the fly deeper than 3ft i will use a heavier fly and/ or let it sink for a few seconds before retrieving. As Nigel said the extra density of flouro doesn't make a great deal of difference but it because it sinks better than mono and is stiffer it allows better turn over of the fly, better contact with the fly as it easily sits subsurface and of course is virtually invisible.

The crucial bit is using the right fly, Bassfly ,(respect), is right when he says that Bass are greedy and will take anything, but i still think we have to put it in the right place at the right time, as in my previous posts about the Clouser not being as effective when the Fish are fry feeding on the surface as the little unweighted minnows, because the Clouser is not fishing in the right 'ZONE'. It'll catch, but not as well, however, when the fish are not pre occupied on fry, the Clouser is hard to beat, as are other patterns given the right situation.

Fishing Poppers and Crease flys as i have already posted ,to my mind requires a monofilament tippet/leader (hooklink) as it does not sink as fast as Flouro and is much more suited to surface fishing, especially with a coating of mucillin to help it.

As i said these are my findings so far.

Perhaps some of the other guys could describe their set ups for Mick as well to see if we are all thinking along similar lines or have other findings that may be of use?

And sorry for the Monologue!

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:49 pm

cheers chris,iam sure all this info will put me back amongst the fish soon.thats whats so good about this forum ,the amount of advice given freely,even if it is in a monolguel good reading material tightlines mick

Regular Joined: Jul 26, 2009 Posts: 343 Location: Surrey

Thanks for the welcome wightfish.
All sounds like good advice. My biggest problem is usually finding the fish in the first place, though you can never be sure there are not a few about even when there is no sign. My first bass on the south coast was a 2 lber, caught in the first 5 minutes from a calm sea. Nothing for the rest of the day.

At the risk of introducing a note of vulgarity, does anyone ever bubble fish with delta eels in the Hayling area? On one occasion there were a lot of terns diving, baitfish scattering everywhere, all about 20 yards out of casting range with water over my waist. That day I really wished I had a spinning rod. -Nigel

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:21 am

Hi,
I have in my fly box some small delta rubber thingys,not exactly a fly but its an 'if all else fails' back up......works a treat regardless of depth.
Thank god that wind has stopped.
Cheers
Simon